In this episode of The 12 Minutes of Workplace Health Podcast, Mel interviews Alice Bagley-Harrison, Champion Health's Content Production Lead, who shares her deeply personal journey with grief.
Having lost both parents at a young age, Alice discusses how grief intensifies during the festive season due to heightened expectations of family togetherness and joy.
She also delves into how workplaces and colleagues can support bereaved employees during the holiday period and beyond.
Here’s what Alice discussed with Mel:
- How she has coped with grief during the holidays
- What workplaces can do to support bereaved employees
- How colleagues, friends and family can help
- Self-care tips for those grieving a loss
Episode links:
Alice on her favourite Champion Health platform content
Connect with Alice on LinkedIn
Connect with us on LinkedIn
Episode transcript:
Mel: Welcome to the 12 minutes of Workplace Health podcast. My name is Mel, and today I'm joined by our incredible content production lead, Alice. So, Alice, do you want to introduce yourself a little bit for our audience?
Alice: Yeah, sure. So, I'm content production lead here at Champion Health, which means I'm responsible for all the content on the platform. So, it's a super creative role, cover all sorts of areas of wellbeing, and it suits me down to the ground.
Mel: Yes, you're very, very good at it. So, everyone that is using Champion Health, this lady is the woman behind all the content that you will see on there. So yeah, we're pretty, pretty lucky to have you.
And obviously today we have a bit more of a sensitive topic, I suppose. We're going to be talking about grief and specifically as we're coming up to the festive, how grief shows up then and how to deal with it as well and also what employers and colleagues can do to support.
And we know that dealing with grief anytime is, is really difficult, but when it's Christmas and holiday season and families are getting together, it can be harder to deal with then. So, that's what we're going to talk about today. And Alice has very kindly offered to share her story as well and her insights.
So, Alice, could you just tell us a bit about your story on brief?
Alice: Absolutely. Well, it actually took me 20 years to begin to accept the losses that I had in my life. So, when I was 23, my dad passed away suddenly and unexpectedly. And then when I was 26, so just three years later, my mum died from breast cancer and I was actually with her, sort of nursing her at the end and was with her when she took her last breath.
So, I've experienced both that really sort of sudden unexpected shock that comes from that kind of death and then also the kind of pre-grieving, that prolonged period when you know that someone's terminally ill. And so by the age of 26, I was effectively the oldest person in my family. It was just myself and my younger sister. So, my experience of that is, you know, it was just complete shock, isolation.
I felt very, very alone because nobody my age had experienced that. I didn't even know anyone who'd lost one parent, let alone both. And the difference for me between having one parent still alive and then neither of them was absolutely immense. So yeah, it was my grief that has been characterised really by that feeling of isolation.
And also that was compounded by my age and the fact that my family, my sort of wider family, unfortunately didn't really discuss the deaths. So, it was as if almost my parents had just never been there. And I think that was just the way that we cope or not cope, which is even more isolating for you as well. That has really that experience at such a young age has just completely shaped my life and affected me in many ways, sort of physically, emotionally, mentally and shaped the direction that my life has gone in.
So, yeah, just so key to talk about, to talk about grief and not bottle it up is that is what I've learned over those years.
Mel: Yeah, definitely. I agree. And so obviously today we're going to be talking about dealing with grief during the festive - as it can be a particularly hard time to, you know, not have your family or loved ones close to you or around. So, how does your grief look different during this time?
Does it get more intense? Is it harder to deal with? What does it look like for you?
Alice: Well, I think that anyone who is grieving or has experienced the loss will know that any kind of holiday, any kind of celebration, any kind of festive season is just going to feel so much harder. And I think we, you know, we put so much meaning into these times. And when you are grieving and there's somebody or something not there, it just exacerbates it because they're all about community. They're all about family. They're all about this sense of togetherness, togetherness and celebration.
And, you know, I dreaded every Christmas for the last, you know, 20-odd years. And I had that sense of anxiety kind of as early as August, September, just thinking about how is it going to feel? What's it going to be like this year? And I think that is because we have such high expectations often of these periods. It's almost as if, well, everything will be OK if, you know, this particular time is joyful and works out.
And we put so much pressure on ourselves anyway to make it this perfect time. If we've got kids, even more so. We've got those expectations. We've got our memories of times, you know, in the past. And I think we often look through sort of rose-tinted glasses at any of these kind of particular moments because they do Mark, you know, the year out for us.
So yeah, grief is undoubtedly harder at these times. Yeah, for all of those reasons. And it's remembering as well that not everyone is going to be experiencing grief in the same way. So, you might go into one of these periods really hoping that you're going to get something from your family, your friends and you, you may not get that. And I think it's that sense of expectation when it's not met can make those those sort of seasons feel much tougher.
Mel: Yeah, yeah. And I suppose as a parent, it would be harder as well because you're dealing with your own emotions. But obviously you're naturally wanting to put your children 1st and for them to have a great time and a really magical experience. So, I imagine it must be really difficult to try and almost bottle what you're feeling and the grief you're going through to remain positive for them.
Alice: Yeah. I mean, it's just an absolute recipe for, you know, feeling kind of all this complex mix of emotions. There's so much going on. Even if you are having a perfectly happy life, you haven't had any bereavements, you know, you're going into these periods feeling joyful and optimistic. There's still a lot to navigate because you've got family dynamics, you've got expectations, you want to make it this amazing magical time.
And I just think if you lay a grief on top of that, and it can be grief from, as in my case, you know, many, many years ago that you haven't resolved or it can be very recent. But even if you've experienced a loss that you feel that you've moved forward with and you've come to some kind of piece with, it's still going to churn up those emotions because they're such loaded times.
So, yeah, very difficult for lots of us.
Mel: Yeah. And so, do you have any coping techniques or strategies that you put in place during this time to help you, to help you deal with the period a bit better?
Alice: I do now. I didn't for many years and that made it very, very difficult. And so more recently now that I've actually begun to grieve properly and it, you know, it's a lifelong process really. But I think the key for me was actually just reducing my expectations. So I would go into every often Christmas, you know, and other parts of the family holidays and that kind of thing.
But particularly Christmas, I would go in hoping that this year would be the one that kind of made me feel complete again, that somebody would say the right thing, that, you know, my parents would get mentioned. And we talked lovingly about them. We do all this wonderful stuff and it never happened. And once I just let go of that hope, as sad as it sounds, actually, they've become much easier. And I don't go in with these high expectations. And I don't expect to get from people what they can't give me. And I think that's really key.
I think it's cool to not go into Christmas with sky-high expectations anyway, even if you're not going through grief. So, you can imagine it would be even harder when you are.
And I think with grief and when you are grieving, you just feel it, a huge lack of control because obviously the worst thing that could have happened has happened and there was nothing that you could do to stop it. And so when you're going into these, these periods, I think creating some sense of control over your experience can be helpful.
So, a couple of things that I do now. So, my mum's birthday is on the 23rd of December. So, this is even more kind of especially difficult load. I just simply light a candle on the 23rd of December each year and I just have it flickering away as I'm kind of pottering around. And it sounds like such a small thing, but for me, that's very meaningful. And it kind of feels like she's there with me.
Nobody else needs to know that that's what I'm doing, you know, because I said we're quite private as a family and haven't been able to express and share. So, for me, that's really helpful. And then just stuff like music, you know, my dad was a massive music obsessive, and he had a playlist for every single, every single event, every single holiday.
And so, there's, you know, particular songs which just bring me straight back to kind of the family home that we had. And it takes me, it takes me right back there. So, I'll put on, I'll put on something like that and it'll just make him feel like he's here with me as well.
Mel: Yeah, that's really nice. Thank you for sharing that with us.
So, moving more into the working environment, obviously, your work was a little different back then when that happened, as we've already discussed. But what do you think employers can do to support employees who are recently bereaved and going through grief during this period of time?
And it can be just like things that you would have liked to have been offered or the support you would have liked to have at that time. What can employers do to help?
Alice: Yeah, I mean, I think the key takeaway is to support with empathy. So, we are all going to experience grief at some point in our lives and we're all humans. So just lead with empathy. Treat your employee as a human and be a human yourself. Obviously, you know, there are policies and procedures that need to be followed. So, having a really clear bereavement policy is key.
And communicating, for example, exactly how long that person is allowed or entitled to leave. You know, how long is that going to be? Just manage that expectation. But I think just being very willing to listen to what the person is saying and, you know, be guided by them to some extent. Obviously there are parameters in place, but be guided by their needs. Because everybody's grief looks different, you know, and I remember, I can speak from my perspective.
I was actually in one of my very first temping jobs when my dad died. So I was, I was 23. So I, I wasn't even, you know, on a full, on a full contract, I was tempting. So, I felt extremely vulnerable. And hence I kind of put on a face of, oh, I'm absolutely fine, yes, I'll have some time off to go to the funeral. But I was back, you know, immediately. I had no time off whatsoever.
And I think it's about being aware, you know, hopefully things have moved on now, but it's about being aware that people will be very concerned potentially about, about their jobs, about their careers and about it not impacting how they're perceived in the workplace.
So just being just being caring, supportive and giving them that time because if they have the time to properly, to properly have some space and to consider what it is that they need, they will be more effective at work. They will be more able to do their job when they're ready and they'll be able to do it well without these kind of long-term issues that come from not having the time and space to grieve.
Mel: Yeah, definitely. And how can colleagues and probably friends and family as well navigate your grief as well? What are some helpful empathetic things that they can say? What are some things that they should avoid saying completely? What actually helps?
Alice: What can colleagues and friends and families do to navigate this? I mean, I think the main thing is to please say something. Don't say nothing. It's incredibly, incredibly hurtful if somebody ignores the fact that you've just suffered a loss and that has that, that that acknowledgement.
Obviously, unfortunately in our society, it is still to be to talk about death and certainly at work and within many sort of family setups as well. But even if you don't know what to say, you can just say something like, I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm thinking of you, but not to acknowledge it because you feel awkward. That person will remember that, and you know it's not about you here, it's about them.
And at some point you may be in that same situation and you will want somebody just to reach out and it's about maybe just giving a hug if you don't know what to say. Actually, one of the most touching things that somebody said to me, which I've always remembered, and they just said, my favourite memory of your dad is this.
And then they told me this lovely story about my dad. And no one had ever said that to me before, but it really felt like they'd listen. They were thinking about me, and they gave me something. And when you've lost something, to have somebody give that memory to you is just wonderful. So, it really, it really does make a difference.
And you know that the sort of things not to say, because we all want to know what not to say so that we don't feel like we're messing up or putting our foot in it, put in it. But you know, it's things like that, I guess, judgmental, giving advice. So, like they're in a better place. Well, at least they were old, you know, you need to be strong.
All this kind of stuff where no, this is, you know, they don't need to be strong. This is a massive, massive thing that's happened. And it's just about you listening and not feeling like you need to fix the problem.
Mel: Definitely. Did you find that people treated you with kid gloves as well because you were going through something so horrific? Did people treat you differently? Were there any points where you wished people would treat you like how you were before?
I'm thinking about people, you know, just wanting to do anything they can to help, like being extra hands-on or full-on. Was there any of that and did it help, or did it just make things a bit worse?
Alice: I mean, everybody's different and how they cope, but I actually would have rather people were more like that with me. But I think because I put on such a mask, you know, I'm absolutely fine that then you don't get the help, and you don't get the offers. You know, maybe you do it first. But I wasn't able, I wasn't able to respond to any of that because I was just in shutdown. I'm going to cope with this and power on mode.
So, I wasn't unfortunately able at the time to kind of respond to those lovely offers that I did get. And then after that initial maybe few weeks, few months, that begins to dry up. And you know, when people kind of move on, and we all know if you've been bereaved, you know, actually often the first few weeks or months, you’re kind of possibly in shock and you're just busy doing all the stuff that you have to do around the death.
But actually, as time progresses, you know, months and even years later, that's when you really want someone to reach out to you and say, are you OK? What can I do for you? Or, you know, those lovely little gestures. And it's the rare person that does those.
And that's, you know, partly because we often just don't know what to do until maybe you've been in that situation. And even then, it's hard because people respond differently. But I think the key is just don't ever feel that by mentioning the person who has, who has died, by mentioning their name, you're going to upset somebody more than they are already.
It's so, so lovely to hear their name mentioned and to be asked you know, about them. That is the best thing that you can do.
Mel: Yeah. OK. And finally, for those who are experiencing grief at Christmas, what can they do after the holidays to kind of decompress and re-stabilise? Because obviously it's all a bit of a whirlwind and we all need time to kind of come down from these things. And I imagine the emotional downward spiral will be harder for people who are dealing with grief at this time.
So, what can they do to kind of look after themselves and recentre themselves?
Alice: Like everything in life really, it's about focusing on the really simple things.
So the holiday seasons are characterised, aren't they, by sort of busyness, social engagements, seeing lots of people doing lots of things and you can forget or it can be difficult to just take care of the basics on talking, you know, eating regularly and eating healthily if you can, getting outside, going for a walk, trying to go to bed and get up at the same time and just create that kind of structure in your life that can go out of the window when you're busy with lots of, you know, lots of things that are on the agenda.
So, I would say focus on the simple things and getting those back in place if they've kind of gone off and grief takes up so much mental space that it can be really, really difficult just to do the basics. And it's not a time for big plans or making huge changes. You can sometimes feel like you want to do that, which is fine.
But make sure that you take care of yourself, and you really just focus in on being kind to yourself and doing as little as you want. And I know for me, I started to take that time, you know, once my kids were older, that time between Christmas and New Year, which, you know, can feel like dead time for some people.
Well, for me, that is my, that is my time where I just focus on really doing exactly what I want to do. So resting loads. I do a lot of writing and journaling. You know, I'm outside, I'm moving. And it's just taking those, that time, if you can, not everyone can, but just taking what time you can just to recuperate and really get the basics in place.
Mel: Yeah. And I sorry, I'm going to throw in another one last question just because you mentioned it, but how does journaling help you deal with your grief? Because obviously that's becoming quite a huge thing now. And personally, I find writing to be so therapeutic. It gets a lot out for me.
So how does it help you with your grief?
Alice: There have been a number of things which have like completely changed my life in relation to sort of my mental health and journaling is one of those things. So, I used a specific technique called journal speak, which was, it was thought up by someone called Nicole Sacks, the cure for chronic pain. And I follow a particular technique of writing. And this has been shown actually sort of scientifically to be super effective in helping to move through and process emotions.
So, I follow it's 20 minutes and then followed by 10 minutes of a meditation, like a specific type of meditation. I don't do that every day now. I used to, I went, I've been through periods, but I use a specific, so it's not just writing a diary. It's very specific in how you do it and you're going and focusing in on certain things.
So, I would focus on certain element of my grief that was really bothering me, for example. And you just get everything out on the page, and it really helps you to kind of pull up what's kind of underneath how you might be feeling. And then you're able to kind of understand it a little bit better and process it.
I think of it as a bit like a reservoir. And if your reservoir gets too full of emotions and feelings that have been suppressed, it's going to overflow somewhere. So, for me, that was like my tears. My crying was so near the surface. For years, I couldn't speak about my parents without welling up. And that was because my reservoir was so, so high.
So, I find journaling just helps to release some of that water literally through tears. But also, you know, it releases some of that stuff. And you're then able to just feel a little bit like you've got a bit more space and a bit more the clearer perspective. Yeah, I think as well getting it out there, especially on paper, obviously make sense of it so much more.
Like it seems so much more logical when it's on paper than when it's in your brain and it's taking up a lot of space.
Mel: I completely agree. And I think it's a really effective tool for anyone dealing with anything really from mental health issues to grief. So, I'm glad that we touched on it and I think there'll be so much here that employers and colleagues and friends and family and those going through grief can take away from this.
So, thank you very much for joining us and hopefully we'll have you back on the show soon.
Alice: Thank you. You're very welcome.
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